sedatives

[Sunflower]

Has anyone ever used a sedative before on their child for sleeping problems?

[Klovan]

Can you describe what the problem is?
Thanks.

[Sunflower]

I have a 6 year old who doesn't go to bed until 1 or 2 in the morning. We have tried using Benadryl before but all it does is make him more hyper. Especially when we go out of town or if he is in a different place. We talked to our pediatrician and they said that we would have to monitor him for awhile to get the correct dosage for him. Are there any alternatives or suggestions?

[Klovan]

Dear Sunflower:
I want to help your child. I have more questions:

Is he on the diet? What does he eat? Please, be very specific. Does he eats a lot (good appetite) or it is a problem to feed him?

What are his favorite foods (something he is ready to eat a lot)?

Is he autistic (pdd, add, bla-bla-bla)?

How long does this hyperactivity lasts (2 years, 3 years etc.)?

Can you describe his typical day (f.e. wakes up at 6am, breakfast at 7, goes to school at 8, naps at 12 for 2 hours etc. etc. etc.)?

Before doctor advised you Benadryl did he/she run any tests, lab exams etc.? If yes, which ones?

Can you notice any kind of rush (red or pink spots on his skin) anywhere? Or no rush, but skin is little bit rough when you touch him. If yes, where? Does he have red (or black or blue) circles around (under) his eyes?

How is his stool (loosy, pastry, constipating, unusually smelly etc.)?

If he is autistic, is he verbal? What are his unusual behaviours?

[Lighthouses]

Hello, I also have sleeping problem as part of problem blamed by AS behavior. Thanks, :(

[Chupi]

We have been using 3-6mg of Melatonin, both fast and timed release for our 4 year old PDD-NOS with no ill effects. Our nuerologist had no problems with this dosage, and it helps him sleep better, but its not a perfect answer, he still has sleep problems.
I'd also try dietary modification. We eliminated Gluten and reduced his hyperactivity.

[Lighthouses]

Hello Chqui, Thank You!..:-)

[Klovan]

Hello, sleepless parents.
It used to be our regular routine 2 years ago with my autistic daughter:
1. at 9 pm we start going to bed.
2. 10 pm - no sleep. Yelling, screaming, attempts to get ou of bedroom.
3. 11 pm - same.
4. 11:30 - 12:00 - finally. We almost dead.
5. 2-3 am - she wakes up jumps all over the place, climbes on furniture, TV, cartoons, etc. till 5-6 am. Then she falls asleep till 8 am.
6. at 12 - nap for 3-4 hours. Impossible to wake up.
7. at 6 pm wakes up and all over again.

Now she sleeps (knock the wood) from 8-8:30pm till 7-8 am. Never wakes up. No nightmares. Deep sleep. Wakes up in the morning in the very good mood.

No medications.

Do you like it? We do.

Any medication is a very simple 'solution' to the problem. Take a pill and go to the bed. If it doesn't work - take 2 pills, 3, 4 ... untill finally you calm down. Sleeping problem is still there you just knock down your kid.

First you have to start with Gluten/Casein free diet. In order to remove (for the start of recovery process) the most annoying and disturbing part of life of your children - proteins which bombard brain of your children. Check this out:
http://www.gfcfdiet.com/FAQKarynSeroussi.htm

To mother who uses Benadryl: if you use syrup - stop using it. It may increase the hyperactivity.
Yjanks to all.

[Lighthouses]

Hello Kovlen, Thanks!..:rolleyes:

[Klovan]

you are welcome.

[Lighthouses]

Hey Kloven, No Problemo!..Thanks, :rolleyes:

[waalkest]

I would definitely try Clonidine on your child. My son used to be up at 3 am. and since I am a full time working mother I just could not do that all the time. I really feel sedating your child to help him/or her sleep can be useful.

Lana

[kjorn]

My son had this problem for awhile. He started amitryptiline and he could finally sleep all night in his bed without all the head-banging. This med is safe and cheap and is used frequently in low doses for sleep disorders. It helped IMMENSELY. He got such a good night's sleep, his mood and conduct quickly improved in the day.

Magnesium given in the evening or at bed-time helps with calming as does epsom salt baths. Phenols often cause jumpiness so maybe try limiting or not giving phenols late in the afternoon or at night.
Hope this helps.

P.S. I am new at this board, so if someone has ideas for formatting or better posting tips, let me know.

[Sunflower]

What excatly is a gluten/casein free diet-what kinda of foods do you rule out? We stay away from the sweets right now-it cuts back on the drooling!

[kjorn]

[I am not sure if I am supposed to reply here but I got a message saying to respond]

The GFCF diet is the gluten free, casein free diet. Gluten is a protein in some small grains such as wheat, oats, rye and barley. Casein is a similarly structured protein in dairy (milk, cheese, whey, etc). Many people also have to remove soy because of a similar protein. Many kids are not able to sufficiently break these proteins down. A partial breakdown results in some peptides that have been identified as harmful because they cross the gut barrier and get into the bloodstream and attach to some receptors in the brain and cause an opiate-like effect - resulting in a lot of the unwanted behaviors and difficulties of many people with ASD.

So the GFCF diet is a diet where you eliminate these foods so the proteins do not get in the system at all where they may only be partially broken down. We did this for 2 months and it was hard and rather unmanageable for us. Now we use a particular type of digestive enzyme with is designed to break down the casein/gluten proteins completely and thereby not leave any partially broken peptides in the system to cause problems. We have been using Peptizyde for 3 months with wonderful results.

So you can either eliminate foods or use enzymes or both or neither or rotate or whatever. But that is the basics.

[Sunflower]

Can you get Peptizyde from your local GNC store or is something that you can only get from Peditrician?

[Klovan]

Whatever you going to buy I warn you to stay away from GNC. In 100% cases all supplements vitamins etc. require proper storage otherwise they lose their usefullness and sometimes can be harmful. GNC stores are more oriented to muscle builders. You have to find health food store, organic food store or natural farmacy. They know a lot about this stuff.

For those unfamiliar with GFCF diet check this site out:
http://www.gfcfdiet.com/FAQKarynSeroussi.htm
very simple and very informative for beginners.

As to sedatives - here is my personal opinion:
suppose I have a pain in my leg. I go to the doctor and I say: Dear doctor I have a pain in my leg so bad that I cannot sleep night. Can you help me?
Sure, - says doc, - Here is a pill.
Wow, - I am excited. - Is my pain gonna go?
No, - says doctor, - but you're going to sleep all night.

Sorry, no offence ment to anybody.

[kjorn]

Peptizyde has only been available since April. You get in online at www.houstonni.com

There is a toll-free number you can call if you have any questions or concerns about the products and their use. Dr. Houston is the formulator and is very generous with his time in answering parents' questions. You can also post on the enzymesandautism board. There are lots of success stories and information and helpful people.

[thomason]

But if you have a very picky eater it is difficult to do the diet. Yes, please don't get me wrong, it is best to do this. But it is also very expensive and time consuming in preparing and in trying to purchase ingredients that are needed to replace the gluten/caesin. And is hard to find if you live in a rural area.

I am not stating this is better only that there is something that you may give each time the child eats to take the yeast and dairy out of the intestines. It is called "serenaid", it is only in caps. But is not toxic to the body, it is a plant enzyme. You can get on the web site to answer any questions that you might have. It is manufactored by Klaire Labs.
stephanie

[kjorn]

Yes, this was our situation. The diet was difficult, expensive, and time consuming for us. Dr. Devin Houston formulated SerenAid several years ago, and now he has formulated this new product Peptizyde.

Stephanie - have you been using SerenAid instead of the diet or with the diet? If so, for how long and how has it been going?

[thomason]

Kjorn-

I would of loved to tried the diet but like I said he is such a picky eater it wasn't worth placing him through. I wanted to try other options instead of the diet. It was going to be my last resort.

I'm sorry to answer your question, no I have never used the diet. I have a lot of literature on it. At the begining we started placing the caps of serenaid in all his foods, due to him refusing to take pills/caps. But then when we would place the serenaid in food he would refuse to eat it. So once again waste of food, pills, and $. I used to try to place it in his yogurt and once again he refused to eat. Mainly the only thing we can lace it with is when he eats pancakes. Which is rarely never now. But it seems like after he takes the serenaid he really carves bread. He can waste a whole loaf of bread in nothing flat. He burrows through middle of each slice and eats the middle only...

Not to change the subject...But I don't know about the state you live in...But I only wish the people in the goverment had to live with the everyday to day experiences we do. And to see how expensive it is to support these children in the home. I hope that this coming year when the legislature goes back they will address the issues that I addressed to my house of respresentive in regards to issues in autism.
Back at ya!
stephanie

[kjorn]

Hiding the supplements must be hard. I just tell mine (who are 7 and 9 so I can do this) "Here, take this." LOL. So it is easy. We ate all the GFCF stuff for a couple months, and when Peptizyde I came out, I said "Either you take the enzymes first, or eat GFCF." They don't like the GF bread at all so it went over well. There are some ways to teach you child to swallow pills if you are interested.

We found that after taking the Peptizyde for maybe a week, that the cravings were no longer there. I am not sure why except maybe it filled a nutrient void or something. I used to get terrible bread cravings, and sugar-chocolate cravings, and now I don't. My oldest son used to want to eat or chew constantly. Now he doesn't bagder me for snacks all day. I don't know if it would help your child or not.

On the other hand my younger son would only eat about 5-6 things and took forever to eat. After about 1-2 weeks on Pep, he started eating anything I put down and saying "I am still hungry." Now he eats about 30 different things without a fuss. He was too thin and has gained out 5 pounds in the past 3 months. But it is so hard when they whine about everything.

We live in Iowa and don't know anything about what is going on politically in the state in these matters. My husband keeps up with the biotech stuff and so I know what the main issues are (or at least his version of them, LOL).

What are the main therapies that have helped you? I am looking into a little audio therapy now. Hopefully not too expensive. All this stuff really dips into the budget.
Karen.

[thomason]

Karen,

I wish I could get my son to eat and take things the way yours do, you are very forunate in that field.

the main therapies I have used on my son are the vitamin, the enzyme and secretin,ect. But he also is very sensory intregrated. Which of course he receives O.T. and is also in music therapy, which I might has done wonders in entering places that he has never been. he doesn't place his hands over his ears like he used to do, even when he would go to the store with me. Music therapy has made it able for him to eat daily in the lunchroom with all the other kids. And even the teachers say that some days the noise level is terrible. He also has started to participate in P.E. and I beleive it is due to the music therapist going to the gym and helping him cope with the sounds in there too.

We are getting ready to get an in-service from the Judevine on alot of different bases. This is about a 8 week type things that better helps you and everyone that comes in contact with him teach him communicate and manage his behavior, which is a main concern to deal with....Very strong headed.
stepahanie

[Mary Kaye]

We started melatonine and saw improvements the first night. I have heard of others having good results with GABA, but we haven't tried it on Logan. You can get both of these at any health food store.

Best of luck,
Mary Kaye

[DSCARR5]

Sunflower, My little boy could never sleep. He would always get up and want to sleep with me. When he got older he said he always had terrible nightmares. Very soon after we started him on the cfgf diet he started sleeping normally and one night said " I don't have nightmares anymore. But caisen and gluton are definately a problem for my son. Good luck! Donna

[Sunflower]

thanks to everyone who posted a reply to the sedative question--I got alot of good advice and suggestions that i will try and maybe get some more sleep!!!

[kjorn]

I also use magnesium in the form of Natural Calm (very absorbably magnesium citrate from the health food store). Mag is often recommended for hyperness and calming. give it maybe 1 hour or so before bed to start quieting the system down.

[ets]

Hi,
We had the same problem with our son Matthew. It was a nightmare. The answer to the problem seems so simple now, but at that time we were clueless. We eliminated chocolate milk from his diet. :o) I know...we feel so stupid now. It helped Matt stay asleep. We still get the occasional wakeup at 2-3 am but it is not anywhere as frequent as it used to be. I think a closer look at diet is necessary.
By the way, I would love to hear from anyone who has tried "Adderall" with their child. Our doctor has given us a prescription for this medication to try. I just don't know. Matthew did not fare well on any of the other meds he's been given over the past few years including Ritalin. Any other perspectives on this would be welcome.
Thanks, Terry :)

[waalkest]

Hi Terry:

My son has been on Adderal for about two years now and has done very well. It helps him to focus and stay on task at school. Ritalin did not fare well with him. Adderal is longer acting so it may be worth your while.

So where in Maryland are you from? I am from Baltimore.

Lana:)

[kjorn]

Chocolate milk is a phenol and typical phenol reactions include restlessness, uncontrolled silliness/giggling, and disturbed sleep. Of course, chocolate has some caffeine in it as well. I glad you figured it out. I have had my share of "obvious" solutions to problems. We have to be detectives for some of this stuff.

My older son had a terrible reaction to Ritalin as well. He does well with Zoloft and amitriptiline which helps with pain and sleep.

[LynneT.]

YES I currently still do use sedatives, honestly we tried everything from melatonin to valerian all the natural sedative stuff, but to no avail. So our doctor at Sick Kids in Toronto suggested Clonodine. This has worked quite well, although I've heard some talk that it can be dangerous. My daughter has been on it for 2 years, and although we still have the occaisional bad night, it has helped to have some normalcy for all of us. My daughter is brighter, more attentive, more eye contact and increasingly more responsive - I guess like the rest of us from a good night's sleep. She takes it before bedtime, but she is also on an antidepressant in the a.m. called Luvox. Believe me I did not want to go this route, but it has worked. She calm enough now to take in the world and actually respond to it. All my therapists (O.T. and Speech) have said "It is working - don't mess with it." She actually presents as very normal but just a little shy now.

[ets]

Hi Lana,
I am from Germantown, MD.
I am getting so many useful suggestions here. I am going in search of a good health food store this weekend and try also to find these supplements being talked about.:)
Thanks all!
Terry

[Tashia]

We had the problem with not sleeping too, when my son was much younger (2-4 yrs old). I had heard about the GFCF diet, but due to the fact that his dietary preferences were so severely limited and he had multiple caregivers, I didn't think we could successfully pull it off and didn't try. He was also hyperactive and agressive, LITERALLY bouncing off the walls, furniture, etc.

One day I saw a segment on Donahue with a Dr. Doris Rapp addressing the problems of extreme cases of ADHD. In her book,
"Is This Your Child?" she covers a lot of material about food intolerances and it is well worth reading. One thing that struck a cord was that many children with ADHD symptoms are intolerant to a food additive MSG and it causes their symptoms to be so severe that they can't even be controlled with medication. She also told about how to do a food elimination diet to identify the substances your child is reactive to.

Since GFCF was such a major undertaking, without even knowing for sure if that is what he was reactive to, I began an elimination diet -- there wasn't much to eliminate. I read every label and first thing we tried eliminating was MSG. It turned out that most of his favorite foods were chocked full of it. After two weeks of 90% success eliminating it, we gave him ravioli that was full of MSG. Within 5 minutes of finishing his plate he was tantruming, turning over furniture, hitting me and bounced off walls for the next 2 days.

In eliminating MSG from his diet, we switched many of our meat products to turkey, because Mr. Turkey products didn't have MSG. It had a WONDERFUL unexpected side effect of curing his sleep problems!! It wasn't until months later that I found out why. Turkey contains tryptophan, which promotes sleep. Tryptophan is one substance that Dr. Rimland of the Autism Research Institute thought could be helpful to many with AS and sleep problems, but it was banned in this country due to a contaminated batch imported many years ago.

While I would not discourage you from trying GFCF, which can have many other added benefits, I would encourage you to get Dr. Rapp's book, try the elimination diet, switch to turkey products for a while and try eliminating MSG from the diet. On labels it is listed as Mono Sodium Glutamate, hydrolyzed proteins, natural flavors and may be in products containing casien or whey. It is especially found in canned products like spaghetti, ravioli, processed meats, even BBQ Potato Chips!

Try it for a few weeks and see what happens. :D

[Debby]

my son does NOT eat well and has trouble sleeping. has many sensory issues- I think this has much to do with his sleep and eating habits. would be interested to know if others agree

[Klovan]

It is difficult to understand that Nutritional Intervention (GFCF diet plus vitamins and supplements) is the ONLY SOLUTION to autism. It is difficult to understand that industrialized food (not just milk or grains but EVERYTHING) is simply toxic to humans. As a reaction to this enormous amounts of sugars, nitrates, toxic metals, genetically modified foods etc. -- we, human race in industrial countries, are mutating and we are divided into 2 almost equal groups - those who are incompatible with most of the food and pay for this with autism, asthma, cancer, altsheimer, arthritis, diabetes, AIDS etc. and those who manage digestion (who are the future of race if nothing changes) and they pay with intellectual degeneration, aggressive and violent behavior.
There is no excuse - autistic child if not on the diet is doomed.