what do I do to stop behavior

[Deester]

My daughter has a increased interest in 'herself'. It's gotten to the point that we are looking into certain causing factors.

How do you prevent them constantly touching where she shouldn't.

It happens in all areas.

Denise

[Lisa S]

She has been having wetting accidents more than usual lately as well, so I wonder if there is some local irritation down there that is causing her to touch it more. I know the doctor ruled out an urinary tract infection, but could something else be causing local irritation like bubble baths or a new laundry detergent or some sort of yeast or bacteria or something? I would try to rule out that possible physical cause first.

Then you might try dressing her so she has less access to the area when she is in public. Perhaps overalls would help, as well as shorts or leggings under dresses. Then you have to begin teaching her the difference between public and private. Some places are private, like the bathroom, and if she needed to scratch an itch or whatever, that would be an appropriate place to do it.

Lisa

[Deester]

We checked. No yeast infection or bladder infection.

[mlwear]

Social Story?

Austin is much more interested in "himself" than my older son ever was (at least as of now). He even has songs that he has made up about it :eek:
(So hard not to laugh, but not too hard when we are in public.)
Anyway, I tell him it is something to do in private and now he goes to his room. Sometimes, he is there for quite a while.

[lacey@alex]

My son who is 7 is extremely Autistic is compulsively interested in playing with his private parts. I have specially made clothing that he wears to help prevent him from doing this. He also gets into his diaper contents and well....
yeah...one big mess! He has to wear tights and ballet clothing under his clothes. And on top of his regular clothing he wears a soft cotton vest/harness like thing on top. It has straps through the crotch so he can't take his pants off. He's quite the "Huddini" let's just say. The only shoes he can wear are Converse high tops because he takes off everything else. Summer time is hard, we have wet suits and lighter stuff for him to wear but he tends to get into trouble more in the summer months. Good Luck.

[StrictNon-Confo]

Lacey,

it sounds like your son has extreme sensory issues. Have you had that properly evaluated? For all you know, he's checking on why he is either getting too much sensation there, or not enough: putting him in what is effectively a strait-jacket will simply drive him crazy while doing absolutely nothing to address the underlying cause, and creating new problems instead.

[lacey@alex]

#1 Yes I Have Had The Sensory Issues Evaluated And The Restrictive Clothing Is Apart Of The Therapy. In Order To Deal With The Thousands Of Issues My Child Has We Have To Take Them One At A Time. With All The People That Are Apart Of His Life Trying To Make His World Make Sense And To Bring A Little Joy Into His Life Please Don't Judge. You Have No Idea How Difficult My Son Is. You Abviously Have A Higher Functioning Child On The Other End Of The Spectrum. Without A Doubt You Are The Rudest Person I Have Ever Met. I Was Just Replying To A Thread Not Trying To Give Advise On What I Think Works Because As You Should Know With Autism-what Works For One Child May Not Work For The Other Child, Just Like You And Me. This Web Site Is For Support Not Judgement.

[StrictNon-Confo]

FOR SOMEONE TO STATE THAT "WITHOUT A DOUBT YOU ARE THE RUDEST PERSON I HAVE EVER MET" SHOWS THAT OUTSIDE OF THE OBSERVATION THAT YOU HAVE KIDS RANGING UP TO EIGHT YEARS OF AGE, YOU MUST HAVE BEEN BORN YESTERDAY, OR HAVE LED A SHELTERED LIFE. Oh, it seems I left on the capslock key while I was typing that accidentally... or maybe not... where it is absolutely certain that unless you have one messed-up computer setup that capitalizes the first letter of every word you type into web forms, you went out of your way to be annoying by typing like that. That's just one of the milder forms of rudeness of yours you showed in your reply: the other forms are more egregious by far, and I will address those next.

Another form is you didn't bother to do much reading on this forum to know anything about the makeup of the people posting. If you did, you might be shocked and dismayed to see that there are several of us on the spectrum that post on here. I strongly suggest you read the threads where I've posted, because I'm not desiring to type so much again just because you can't be bothered to gather information, and instead prefer to jump to stupid confusions. I can state with authority that I'm far more qualified to judge the situation about what you and that quack of a therapist are doing to your son than you are, because I'm similarly equipped, and have far more first-hand (pardon any puns) experience in knowing what it means to grow up as a male, and as a human-being as well in comparison to you.

There are many on the spectrum that post on this forum: get used to it: resistance is futile!

You and that quack therapist would make a very good example and a complete show as the topics on Dr. Phil without any other parties involved, based on what you've stated on here as to how your son is treated. Why? Because that quack of a therapist is (at best) deluding you into thinking that the plan of attack on your son is in his best interest, when the only interest it really serves is that of the therapist convincing you that there will be desired results. What that quack of a therapist would have you believe is that treating your son as less than an animal in terms of rights under the law is a good thing and will return the results desired: a happy, well-adjusted boy that doesn't embarrass the hell out of you, which is a mere annoyance that is likely short-term compared to the long-term harm that is being visited upon him. Your son is a lab rat, but afforded less rights, and doomed to be punished continually for developing in a manner that doesn't seem becoming to you and others.

Well, I would really love to subject you and that quack of a therapist to the equivalent "therapy" your son is being screwed with. I'm very serious about how much he is being screwed, and you can put the nastiest meaning to the word you wish, and it still won't begin to accurately reflect reality. Let's see if you're imaginative enough to do a little thought experiment that comes as close to his imprisonment as can be reasonably envisioned:

Your parents see you one time scratch yourself, maybe a few times, down in the nether regions, and get alarmed. Through no fault of your own, you can't communicate with words either in writing or in typical human speech why that is. For the sake of argument, you felt something odd, and the reality is that you're on your way to the regular menstrual cycle, but it isn't readily apparent to an outsider, and you've got no idea what's going on, because you've never had that experience before, and nobody has educated you on human physiology. After all, since you can't communicate with typical human speech or writing, you're assessed as being incapable of such understanding. Your parents never guess that anything could be happening naturally, because it doesn't fit their concept of timing and sequence of what should happen.

But wait, there's more! For some reason, you've become much more sensitive to your environment, in particular what you're wearing. Perhaps your parents decided to save a few cents on each box/bottle of laundry detergent or softener, and it literally rubs you the wrong way, but it doesn't leave any evidence visible to the naked eye that there's an incompatibility. In addition, perhaps you're sweating more than you did previously, due to the changes your body is undergoing, which causes fun chemical mixtures to irritate things more. On top of all that, because you have never managed to succeed in controlling your body to desired expectations (that may take a few more years) you're stuck in uncomfortable diapers to wallow in your own excrement and urine, and after a few dozen/hundred times in a row of going a bit of time without being able to get out of that, your skin is perpetually irritated, and it itches like mad, but you can't communicate that to anyone. What do you do? You scratch it instinctively to try to get just a little bit more comfortable, and the adults around you scream "You nasty little sub-human rude thing, you can't do that, you'll embarrass us!" (maybe that's more direct and succinct than what's really said, maybe not: it doesn't matter that much) and punish you for doing something they themselves do all the time: try to relieve discomfort. In their eyes, you've started doing something rather beastly, something that must be corrected at all costs: in your eyes (the ones that really matter in this case) you're just trying to keep from going nuts from itching and irritation, and besides, your body has started feeling strange in ways that are unpleasant, and you're quite curious. Since you're an intelligent being, you decide you need to understand what's happening. Of course, you can't ask anyone "What's happening to me? Is this normal?" because nobody would understand anything you're trying to communicate, because they are incapable of making sense of your thoughts.

Now you're in a real quandary of the worst kind: your body is doing odd things that don't always feel good, you're in an uncomfortable diaper, you can't communicate to anyone what's happening, you're reacting in the most logical and reasonable way you (or anyone) could, and everyone else decides you've become obsessed with your body parts and are embarrassing them mercilessly, all because you are uncomfortable with your situation, and you aren't able to do anything more than scratch and try to adjust things. After all, after awhile the padding in those diapers bunches up even if clean and dry, and that gets very uncomfortable to sit on, or walk in. I can't say what it's like for a female, but for a male, there's plenty of issues for things binding and rubbing the wrong way. Furthermore, where things rub, it can cause sensations that lead to other things that many people get too embarrassed to consider: erections, which are a very unsettling thing to a young kid that hasn't been instructed in what it all means. And no, your son is not too young for them. But, back to you in this theoretical situation, because you don't have the capacity to fully understand the experience of your male son because you are ill-equipped to experience that, as much as he is incapable of knowing what menstruation is like for a female. Now you've got this intense curiosity about your personal physiology, and due to everyone treating you as less-than-intelligent because you can't communicate in words with others in either writing or speech, they interpret your actions through their own filters blinded by time, combined with mind-blindness in the thoughts that there may be another reason beyond whatever reason they insist must be why you're behaving that way, and they set out to "correct" your behavior and bring you into a state of "compliance" and make you act like a nice well-behaved monkey, because it would be horrible beyond belief to have a kid be the least bit "uncivilized" and embarrass the parents. How do they do that? They bind you even more uncomfortably in a portable prison cell that rubs you the wrong way constantly, and every time you try to make a break for it, they just up the ante and make it that much more uncomfortable, and every time they see you try to adjust things so you aren't as uncomfortable, they conclude "Oh, look at that! She is still obsessed with herself, and behaving in an unseemly manner! No freedom for her!" all the while you're going nuts with frustration at the situation you've been put in, due to overzealous conformists that insist everyone must comply to their idea of what's correct. They don't pay any attention to the fact that you're constantly doing your best (and sometimes succeeding for a short period) at escaping and investigating your physiological reality, and your attempt to get remotely comfortable, and see that as willful misbehavior that must be clamped down on like a pitbull clamps down on the neck of a little girl and shakes vigorously, not to let go until the little girl is dead and no longer moving (yes, I'm being slightly graphic, but what can I say? I think vivid thoughts!) and is finally "compliant." Every time you do something that's completely natural to you (and all higher lifeforms, for that matter, but you aren't treated that way) your actions are treated the same way: more torturous imprisonment in a portable prison. On top of all that, you're poked and prodded and medicated into as much submission as they think they can do, because you now are starting to "act out" in defiance to their authority, and they stupidly fail to comprehend that they've put you into such a situation that the only thing you can instinctively do is "act out" because you've been driven absolutely bonkers.

Over a period of time, you notice that others around you are touching themselves in a way that got you imprisoned, and you start getting really pissed at everything. (part 1 of 2)

[StrictNon-Confo]

You can't put it into words, and even if you could, nobody will listen and understand. However, you can act on the information: you can try to run away, or fight back directly or indirectly. Unfortunately, this doesn't get the message across to them, and you're seen as becoming violent, aggressive, non-compliant, etc. and the people that you're supposed to be able to trust come to the conclusion "nothing is working, she's being uncooperative, let's change her mind by drugging it up, since nothing else will work!" and you find yourself in a condition where you still have the emotions of pent-up rage and frustration, and they almost boil over into action just about the time you're force-fed the next dose, which you anticipate with dread, because it makes you feel lousy in a multitude of ways. All this time, you notice how many other things that are double-standards of the people around you practice, and you become intensely aware of where you rank in the hierarchy: lower than that of the family cat or dog, because at least they aren't drugged up and put in incredibly constricting clothes that are uncomfortable. Finally, you've had enough: you choose one of two actions, perhaps with one of them and then the other: you run away from home, and (maybe this is lucky or maybe not) you're captured and brought home, and who knows what will happen? Quite likely institutionalization, but whatever the exact details, even less "freedom" than before. The other option is when you've got the chance, you physically fight back, and use your strength. After all those years of torture that was clearly unfair that they inflicted on you, you really let them have it, because they've earned it, fair and square. For all the talk of love, the actions committed against you are anything but love of you, but more about love of themselves: it's what makes them (the so-called "adults") feel like they've made things "correct" at the cost of your happiness, which has been completely eradicated and replaced by very low self-esteem, because you've been treated as a lower lifeform, and not even allowed to do things everyone else gets to do, and people assume you can't understand much, because they've never been able to understand you. What did you do to earn this value judgment on your innocent and harmless actions? What anyone else would do: try to make themselves comfortable, and understand your body in the process. As a result of your long-term torture and emotional abuse (by being made to feel like you're defective and wrong to the point they must imprison you and drug you up) you feel nothing but hatred and loathing for the adults you should have been able to trust and depend on, and you distrust all adults, because of how you've been treated. You've been pushed into a mental state that would likely require a lifetime of good therapy (instead of that pop crap you've been tortured with) to get to even trust adults and those in authority over you (which is an even more depressing reality, that you realize that you'll never be able to do anything without the express permission of those in authority, and you know from past history you will never get that permission, either) because they've completely blown away any possibility of being trusted.

I now will try to anticipate your counterarguments:

1. "But he's 7, he won't remember this when he's older!" well, I'm here to tell you that many on the spectrum have incredibly detailed memories, and it all feels like yesterday, even if they were a baby. I can remember my first birthday birthday cake, and diving into it, quite clearly. That theory "They won't be able to remember" is a piece of crap that needs to be flushed down the toilet.

2. "He can't understand all you're suggesting, he doesn't have the intellectual capacity for that!" which is something that is a fool's assumption about someone they can't clearly communicate with. Just because some animal doesn't speak the same language you do, doesn't mean that they don't understand fairness, have emotions, etc. and many studies have indicated many animals of much lower intelligence than your son are more than capable of understanding all that happens like that, and are capable of long-term conceptualizing when it comes to the social order of things.

3. "But he doesn't have those emotions, he doesn't express them!" well, this is another case of misinterpretation: just because people turn a blind eye to very obvious actions and assume that they mean something they interpret them to mean because they're observing them with poop-colored glasses (when that's what you're looking through, everything looks like crap, much like rose-colored glasses, but more fecal matter) and treat things according to the poop-colored interpretations.

4. "But doing this will get him away from doing this horrible, horrible thing!" which is another horribly foolish notion. Just because you made it more difficult to get there, does not at all mean that he will lose interest as a result. There is absolutely nothing in the universe you can do to keep him from dealing with his physiology in the way he sees fit, short of modifying him so he physically can't touch it, by removing his arms, or by physically restraining him on a permanent basis. There is absolutely nothing you can do to remove his fascination with his body, if he has it. There is absolutely nothing you can do to make him do your bidding if he chooses not to do it: he has free will to accept or reject your imposed reality, no matter how much he is medically or physically restrained from acting the way he wants. Do you remember being a teenager yourself? Was there never a time where your parents said "Don't do this!" and you purposely went against that and did whatever it was anyway? That's human nature: your son is quite human: treat him as such, instead of as a computer that wears tennis shoes that you can reprogram based on someone that claims to be able to do the equivalent in human terms, when based on experience in real life, I would judge they're no more competent than someone that got FrontPage and put up a shingle (real or virtual) as a web developer.

5. "He'll never be able to communicate with me and be able to tell me all these things!" which may or may not be true: there are several that are "severely autistic" that as adults that are likely older than you are that are non-verbal, but are on the web, and capable of better written communication than you have thus far demonstrated. There are those that have an IQ that dwarfs yours, I'm sure, for what it's worth, so don't hold your tested IQ up as a useful measure of anything but how well you take tests. They have some rather unhappy stories to tell about their lives, lives ruined by those that were supposed to look out for their (the autistic's) best interest, but instead were in reality looking out for their (the parents, authority figure's, general society at large and small) interest instead. These people are emotionally scarred for life.

6. "He'll understand later that it was for his own good that we did this!" to which I say, would you really believe that someone whipping you daily because you looked at them funny was justifiable? He won't remember things from the outside perspective, but from the inside perspective, and it will put you in a very bad light if you (and that quack) continue like this.

7. "What he's doing will make himself and others sick due to the germs!" well, if that's the case, I'd certainly recommend that you don't touch the things a lot of men (and perhaps women, but I've not hung around in women's public restrooms to witness their habits) handle, such as shaking their hands, because you'd be quite alarmed at how many don't even touch the faucet or soap in a restroom. There's only one practical difference between what your son is doing and what a lot of men do: he's doing it in plain sight without shame or thoughts of it, and he's getting caught.

I could go on, but I grow weary at this point. I'm hoping I've laid out enough logic that makes sense in terms of how people think and act that convinces you to not blindly trust so-called "therapists" that are experimenting with the happiness of your son and his sanity (or lack thereof) to achieve the dubious goals of "compliance" with societal expectations. I am asking you to think about the simple questions that can be summed up more or less by "The Golden Rule" of treat others as you'd have them treat you, and thinking about "If I treat someone this way, what would my reaction be if I were also treated this way?" and working from that. He is not being treated with the respect a human being deserves by being trussed up in something that's horribly uncomfortable, and being conditioned to think that what he's doing is some crime against humanity. Prisoners of war are accorded more rights in terms of dignity than your son is being given, and there are war crimes trials for less severe/humiliating patterns of behavior than what is being done to your son.

I end with the question: do you want what's more convenient for you and society, or what's best for your son? Your answer is best solidified by actions, as words are hollow and without meaning, and blow away on the winds of time. I expect this post will rub several the wrong way, but it feels good to let the ugly truth be known, instead of allowing people too easily to delude themselves with a beautiful lie.

#1 Yes I Have <SNIP> I Was Just Replying To A Thread Not Trying To Give Advise On What I Think Works Because As You Should Know With Autism-what Works For One Child May Not Work For The Other Child, Just Like You And Me. This Web Site Is For Support Not Judgement.

[lacey@alex]

Good Luck And God Bless You Too

[autmom]

How do you prevent them constantly touching where she shouldn't.

It happens in all areas.

Denise

We would hand a favorite object to him, so he'd have something to do with his hands.

[Nana]

:confused: My dear grand daughter is in my custody along with two older sisters. She is 10 with Asperger tendancies(sp). She has gotten to the point if she is told no about anything we are in for all out war. The only way to get her to do anything after asking her nicely is to pull out the big guns and take something away from her that she really wants. I don't mean the telephone that is nothing to her. We are planning to go to the Island tomorrow for school vacation. I asked her to clean her room today just pick it up alittle she informed me that she didn't want to and she would do it on Saturday. I told her if she didn't get it done then she was not going with us tomorrow she was going to be going to work with her grandfather. She got her room cleaned in about 30 minutes and it was better then I would of expected her to do. The big thing with her is she is moving out and she is just so rude she yells at me and anyone the even walks past her door. I am to the point that I want the state to come and take her. I am 54 and too tired to have our house in this constant termoil because she is mad. She has already had me turned into the state she claimed that I beat her everyday. I just don't want to do this anymore. PLEASE what do I try so she can stay here with us.
Thanks
Nana Caroline

[mlwear]

Nana--I know you are very frustrated, but would you clarify a bit? She is moving out. You don't want her to move out? Is she "threatening" to move out? It's a little late, so maybe I am just missing something.

I will try to help once I understand a little better.

Has she been to a private psychologist or psychiatrist? Could there be something else going on besides/along with Aspergers? If she is living with you, I'm guessing something must have happened that she isn't with a biological parent.

My older son has "issues"-- Asperger tendencies would be one way to describe it, but he doesn't have that diagnosis. Anyway, He is 11 and I can tell you that puberty is really causing problems around here. Not as severe as what you mention, but he just isn't that nice all the time. But, I think sometimes we attribute behaviors to diagnosises (is that a word?) and don't realize that it is just the normal stuff that kids do. Some adolescents are tough. Not trying to minimize as it seems there is a bit more to your story. Calling the state (Child Protective Services) on you! My son threatened to do that once for being grounded:rolleyes: . I told him to go right ahead, that if a social worker came here he/she would just tell him how good he has it compared to his/her other cases. He never would have really done it, though. But, yours did!

You did just the right thing, IMO by threatening to take away the trip. With my son I have to find the very most important thing to him (within reason) and tell him he will loose it if he doesn't do ________. I always give him a warning first. I don't think it is fair to blindside anyone. You did that and it worked. The little stuff doesn't matter to him either. It's a waste of time. Figure out what is really important. Computer, video game priveleges are a big one for my son. He doesn't care about TV and is OK with staying at the house.

It seems that there may be some larger issues to deal with.

But, in this "crisis" period, you have to remember that you have rights too. You have the right to a life of peace. No one is allowed to scream at you. My son was trying to start tonight with a big argument, trying to lure me into it. I just told him that I wouldn't talk to him. He kept on. I said "I am not talking to you about this". There have been times when I have said "I am tired of this (not so much yelling with him, but this rude debate) and I am going to my room. I do. I shut the door. I just don't engage him at all.
I'm not saying you should always shut her down and never let her communicate. I'm writing about those times that are just out of control. You need to talk about things when everyone is calm and there isn't a big issue looming.

Those are just my opinions. I don't have any formal education, so please don't take it as such. Just a mom, trying to do the best I can.

Ultimately, your granddaughter and her sisters are lucky to have you.

[Nana]

:confused: Thanks for your repy. She goes to a child psychiatrist once a week. She hasn't been with her mom since she was 2. All of the children were taken. She was in a group home with her younger brother and then to a foster home where they were untill she was 7. Then she was placed in a residential home for behavioral children untill 2 yrs ago when they finally placed her with me. She told her social worker at her school that I beat her everyday by hitting her punching and slapping her everyday before school. The social worker inturn called child protection on me. When she decides she is moving out she packs everything that she owns into her back packs, duffel bags, and all the trash bags she can get her hands on. Then we go through a living hell because she is leaving and she doesn't have to do what we say. Ending discussions with her should work but they don't. If she can't argue with me she will start on her sisters. They just don't want to deal with her very often. They do try from time to time but they just don't want to bother with her she argues with them or acts innapropriate with them. I am just so tired of all of this. I don't want to give up but I am about to.
Thanks
Nana Caroline

[mlwear]

Wow, you have it rough. Does her psychiatrist think Aspergers is playing a role in her behavior? In what way? In seems more like the stuff I have heard from parents with kids diagnosed with ODD.
Do you think she really wants to move out or does she want the attention of packing up and being asked to stay?
She definitely knows that is the ace up her sleeve to get what she wants.
What does the psychiatrist suggest? Will he/she do family therapy? That is what ours does, just to put all the pieces of everyone's issues together in a way that it can best be managed.
I really think you need a third party involved. This isn't fair to you or her sisters. You need some help. Can you meet one on one with her social worker?

[Lisa S]

My daughter Catherine has some behavior problems although they are not the same ones your granddaughter has. My husband and I sought out a parenting class for "challenging children" and it helped us very much. The thing that helped us the most in that class was the explanation of how to implement something called "1-2-3 Magic" which is a book and also a videotape by Thomas W. Phelan, Ph.D. You could probably find the book in your library and you might find some help there to better organize what you are already doing for discipline. One of the alternatives in the book is to take away things for certain bad behaviors, but it also has ideas to reward good behaviors. Do you know what sort of discipline the residential home for behavioral children used? If it was not abusive and it was helpful, you might try what they did. Did the child protective people offer any community resources to help you with her or did they just treat you like they automatically thought you were guilty if you were accused of child abuse?

Catherine impulsively ran out of our house after a door-to-door saleslady once, and she has said she would like to go live with her grandparents a few times, but not like your granddaughter, packing up all her things and threatening to run away. I don't know what I would do if she did. I wish I could think of more help for you.

[lacey@alex]

Nana--What about BiPolar has that been a possibility. My oldest son was diagnosed with ADD, Tourettes and OCD. But the ADD label has been changed to BiPolar which fits him better. The behavior your describing sounds alot like my son. Just a thought.

[Dani Marks]

HI,

My son is 6 yr old and has Asperger's. He has an intense facinatin with himself too. He has had this facination since before potty training, it just got worse after no more diapers. I guess because iof easier access.

Anyway, I have spoken to a few people about this, because it can be very embarrassing (my son would not discriminate where he would "do this")(the most embarrassing for us was when he was about 3 yrs old and we were in a crowded bowling ally and down his pants came, and there he sat "comforting" himself). I talked with his developmental ped. about it and also a good friend of mine (her mom, who happens to be a teacher of Autistic kids). They both said that it was "normal" for kids on the spectrum to find something that comforts them and then become obsessed with it. They told me to just keep telling him that it is a private thing and we do private things alone in our rooms with the door shut and not in public places or around other people. They said for me not to try and stop the behavior, because like any other kid the more you say no, the more they will want to do this or any other inappropriate behavior. They said that I have to allow him his "private" time but just keep explaining about places that are appropriate and inappropriate to "comfort" himself.

I hope this helps! So far it has helped with us, although we still have to remind him periodically. There was an incident a few weeks ago where he and his brother were outside in the backyard and...... Anyway, we have to keep reminding him.

Dani M.:)